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TOPIC: How to understand listing

How to understand listing 1 year 2 months ago #43324

  • crojas
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Hi,

According to the manual:
Be careful to always check in your listing that your solvers have actually converged, otherwise, the simulation may be complete but with wrong results.

I'm been working for only a few months with Telemac3D models and I'm still learning. How can I know that my solvers actually converge?

Here is an example of the listing from the last model I'm running:
================================================================================
ITERATION      240 TIME    0 D  0 H 20 MN   0.0000 S   (       1200.0000 S)
================================================================================
 U,V AT THE BOUNDARIES READ IN THE ASCII FILE
 VALUE OF THE TRACER           1 AT THE BOUNDARIES READ IN THE ASCII FILE
 T
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ADVECTION STEP                       
 JACOBI:           1  ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION =   2.533144273206515E-011
 MURD3D_LIPS:    1 ITERATIONS
 JACOBI:           1  ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION =   1.459956811589370E-011
 MURD3D_LIPS:    1 ITERATIONS
 JACOBI:           1  ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION =   3.655617014112944E-012
 MURD3D_LIPS:    1 ITERATIONS
 DIFFUSION OF WN    
 GRACJG (BIEF) :       44 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION:   0.9348234E-04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       PROPAGATION AND DIFFUSION WITH WAVE EQUATION      
 GMRES (BIEF) :        1 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION:   0.9308448E-04
 POSITIVE DEPTHS OBTAINED IN     4 ITERATIONS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                DYNAMIC PRESSURE STAGE                   
 GMRES (BIEF) :       62 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION:   0.9286598E-03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                VELOCITY PROJECTION STEP                 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       ADVECTION-DIFFUSION OF K-EPSILON OR OMEGA STEP    
 JACOBI:           1  ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION =   3.260837215525922E-011
 MURD3D_LIPS:    1 ITERATIONS
 DIFFUSION OF AKN   
 GRACJG (BIEF) :        2 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION:   0.3134408E-04
 JACOBI:           1  ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION =   1.811974411619033E-010
 MURD3D_LIPS:    1 ITERATIONS
 DIFFUSION OF EPN   
 GRACJG (BIEF) :        2 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION:   0.1156087E-04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       ADVECTION-DIFFUSION OF TRACERS                    
 JACOBI:           1  ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION =   7.567784218406307E-014
 MURD3D_LIPS:    1 ITERATIONS
 DIFFUSION OF TRN1  
 GRACJG (BIEF) :        0 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION:   0.7289564E-04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                MASS BALANCE                             

  WATER
VOLUME AT THE PREVIOUS TIME STEP              :    0.6869332E+12
VOLUME AT THE PRESENT TIME STEP               :    0.6869331E+12
VOLUME LEAVING DOMAIN DURING THIS TIME STEP   :     125731.6    
ERROR ON THE VOLUME DURING THIS TIME STEP     :    0.1765549E-03
  BOUNDARY FLUXES FOR WATER IN M3/S ( >0 : ENTERING )
FLUX BOUNDARY      1                          :    -25446.32    
FLUX BOUNDARY      2                          :     190.0000    
FLUX BOUNDARY      3                          :     110.0000    

  TRACER  1: SALINITY        , UNIT :                 * M3)
 
ADVECTIVE FLUX THROUGH BOUNDARIES OR SOURCES  :     881120.6    
DIFFUSIVE FLUX THROUGH THE BOUNDARIES         :     0.000000    
QUANTITY AT THE PREVIOUS TIME STEP            :    0.2394673E+14
QUANTITY AT THE PRESENT TIME STEP             :    0.2394672E+14
QUANTITY EXITING (BOUNDARIES OR SOURCE)       :     4405603.    
ERROR ON THE QUANTITY DURING THIS TIME STEP   :    -1268105.    
  BOUNDARY FLUXES FOR TRACER  1 IN                 * M3/S) ( >0 : ENTERING )
FLUX BOUNDARY      1                          :    -881120.6    
FLUX BOUNDARY      2                          :     0.000000    
FLUX BOUNDARY      3                          :     0.000000    

In this model, the accuracy that I've set was:
/ THESE VALUES HAS BEEN INCREASED SINCE THE MODEL WAS NOT WORKING
MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR DIFFUSION OF VELOCITIES = 400
MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR PPE = 200
MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR DIFFUSION OF TRACERS = 400
MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR PROPAGATION = 400
MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR DIFFUSION OF K-EPSILON = 400

/ THESE VALUES WERE DECREASED SINCE THE MODEL WAS NOT WORKING 
ACCURACY FOR PROPAGATION = 1.E-4
ACCURACY FOR DIFFUSION OF K-EPSILON = 1.E-4
ACCURACY FOR DIFFUSION OF VELOCITIES = 1.E-4
ACCURACY FOR PPE = 1.E-3
ACCURACY FOR DIFFUSION OF TRACERS = 1.E-4

I tried to understand this by reading the manual but I couldn't find anything related to this. Further, on the listing there are a lot of places with the phrase "relative precision", hence I'm lost about which one to pay attention to.

Thanks!
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How to understand listing 1 year 2 months ago #43331

  • pham
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Hello,

In your listing file, you can isolate a few lines for every printing in the listing file:

DIFFUSION OF WN
GRACJG (BIEF) : 44 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION: 0.9348234E-04

>>> That concerns the diffusion step of velocity with conjugate gradient solver "GRACJG" (SOLVER FOR DIFFUSION OF VELOCITIES = 1, default value), MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR DIFFUSION OF VELOCITIES = 400 and ACCURACY FOR DIFFUSION OF VELOCITIES = 1.E-4. You can read that 44 iterations are needed for this step, which is OK (not too much but enough).

PROPAGATION AND DIFFUSION WITH WAVE EQUATION
GMRES (BIEF) : 1 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION: 0.9308448E-04

>>> That concerns the wave equation step of velocity with GMRES solver (SOLVER FOR PROPAGATION = 7, default value), MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR PROPAGATION = 400 and ACCURACY FOR PROPAGATION = 1.E-4. You can read that 1 iterations is needed for this step, which may be not enough, in particular if the asked accuracy is quite big. In your case, I would recommend you to decrease the value of ACCURACY FOR PROPAGATION to 1.E-6, even default value 1.E-8 if the number of iterations is not too big (a good target is around 10 to 30).

DYNAMIC PRESSURE STAGE
GMRES (BIEF) : 62 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION: 0.9286598E-03

>>> That concerns the Poisson Equation step for Pressure with GMRES solver (SOLVER FOR PROPAGATION = 7, default value), MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR PROPAGATION = 200 and ACCURACY FOR PROPAGATION = 1.E-3. You can read that 62 iterations is needed for this step. Perhaps you can decrease the time step (divide by 2 e.g.) or you can try another solver SOLVER FOR PROPAGATION = 1.

ADVECTION-DIFFUSION OF K-EPSILON OR OMEGA STEP
DIFFUSION OF AKN
GRACJG (BIEF) : 2 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION: 0.3134408E-04

DIFFUSION OF EPN
GRACJG (BIEF) : 2 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION: 0.1156087E-04

>>> That concerns the diffusion step for the 2 turbulence variables k and epsilon with conjugate gradient solver "GRACJG" (SOLVER FOR DIFFUSION OF K-EPSILON = 1, default value), MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR DIFFUSION OF K-EPSILON = 400 and ACCURACY FOR DIFFUSION OF K-EPSILON = 1.E-4. You can read that 2 iterations are needed for this step, which may not be enough. In your case, I would recommend you to decrease the value of ACCURACY FOR PROPAGATION to 1.E-6, even default value 1.E-8 if possible without too many iterations (a good target is around 10 to 30).

ADVECTION-DIFFUSION OF TRACERS
DIFFUSION OF TRN1
GRACJG (BIEF) : 0 ITERATIONS, RELATIVE PRECISION: 0.7289564E-04

>>> That concerns the diffusion step for the the tracer with conjugate gradient solver "GRACJG" (SOLVER FOR DIFFUSION OF TRACERS = 1, default value), MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR DIFFUSION OF TRACERS = 400 and ACCURACY FOR DIFFUSION OF TRACERS = 1.E-4. You can read that 0 iteration is needed for this step which is clearly not enough. You do not know if the solving step has converged or not. For tracer, you should try the default value for ACCURACY FOR DIFFUSION OF TRACERS = 1.E-8, even less if only 1 or 2 iterations for this step. If with 1.E-8 you need more than 50-60 iterations, you may try to increase a little bit (e.g. 1.E-7 or 1.E-6) but I would not recommend to ensure tracer conservation.

The messages concerning JACOBI and MURD_LIPS are here for the use of LIPS advection schemes (default advection schemes for TELEMAC-3D), in a first step, you do not need to read them if the relative precision is OK.

Hope this helps,

Chi-Tuan
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How to understand listing 1 year 2 months ago #43347

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Hi Chi-Tuan,

Thanks for your answer. That helps me a lot.

Best,
Cristian
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How to understand listing 1 year 2 months ago #43350

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Hi again,

I have modified some parameters such as the accuracy of the solver for propagation and the solver for propagation and I'm getting a lot of messages about exceeding maximum iterations:
 GRACJG (BIEF) : EXCEEDING MAXIMUM ITERATIONS:     400 RELATIVE PRECISION:   0.1558166E-04

How can I know which solver or parameter is causing this? Is there a way to debug this?


Thanks!
Cristian
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How to understand listing 1 year 1 month ago #43386

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Hello Christian,

A tip to distinguish solvers that can exceed maximum iterations is to choose keywords MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS... different, even a little bit as 400 for one of them, 401 for another, 402 for a 3rd one, etc.

Hope this helps,

Chi-Tuan
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How to understand listing 1 year 1 month ago #43405

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That's a clever way to find out.

Thanks,

Cristian
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