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TOPIC: Question about DELWAQ

Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4354

  • hong
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Hello,everyone.

The *.hyd file produced by telemac2d cannnot be imported into DELWAQ.

There is always an error: "wrong type of Wrong type of file: Hydrodynamic description file".

Does anybody know the reason?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4358

  • pham
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Hello,

Can you tell us which versions of Telemac-2D and of Delwaq you use, please?
Do you use parallel mode or not for Telemac-2D?
When you say "*.hyd file", do you mean the file corresponding to the keyword "DELWAQ STEERING FILE" which is an ASCII file? Or the other binary files?
Can you send your steering file for Telemac-2D and the Delwaq steering file generated by the computation, please?

Regards,

Chi-Tuan
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4363

  • hong
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Thank you, pham.

The versions of Telemac-2D and of Delwaq I use are v6p1 and 1.07.01,respectively.

I'm not using parallel mode for telemac2d.

*.hyd file is exactly the DELWAQ steering file.

It seems that the attachment couldn't be upload.So I copied the two steering files here, please check.

The Telemac2d steering file: 
/
/----------------------------------------------
/  COMPUTER INFORMATIONS
/----------------------------------------------
/
GEOMETRY FILE            	    = lvsi-j.geo
BOUNDARY CONDITIONS FILE 	    = lvsi-j.bc
FORTRAN FILE             	    = user.f
RESULTS FILE             	    = lvsi-j-tra.res
FORMATTED DATA FILE 1               = tides.txt
/LIQUID BOUNDARIES FILE             = qsl_dq.txt
/VALIDATION              	    = YES
/REFERENCE FILE          	    = ref
COUPLING WITH                       = DELWAQ
VOLUMES DELWAQ FILE                 = lvsi-j-volume.dwq
EXCHANGE AREAS DELWAQ FILE          = lvsi-j-area.dwq
VERTICAL FLUXES DELWAQ FILE         = lvsi-j-flux.dwq
SALINITY DELWAQ FILE                = lvsi-j-sal.dwq
VELOCITY DELWAQ FILE                = lvsi-j-velo.dwq
DIFFUSIVITY DELWAQ FILE             = lvsi-j-dif.dwq
BOTTOM SURFACES DELWAQ FILE         = lvsi-j-suf.dwq 
EXCHANGES BETWEEN NODES DELWAQ FILE = lvsi-j-nodes.dwq
NODES DISTANCES DELWAQ FILE         = lvsi-j-length.dwq
TEMPERATURE DELWAQ FILE             = lvsi-j-tem.dwq
DELWAQ STEERING FILE                = lvsi-j-tracer.hyd
PARALLEL PROCESSORS      	    = 0
/
/----------------------------------------------
/  GENERAL INFORMATIONS - OUTPUTS
/----------------------------------------------
/
TITLE                            = 'LVSI'
VARIABLES FOR GRAPHIC PRINTOUTS  = 'U,V,S,B,H,T1,T2'
GRAPHIC PRINTOUT PERIOD          = 60
DELWAQ PRINTOUT PERIOD           = 60
LISTING PRINTOUT PERIOD          = 30
TIME STEP                        = 60.
/DURATION			 = 3970800.
NUMBER OF TIME STEPS            =  18000
MASS-BALANCE                     = YES
INFORMATION ABOUT SOLVER         = YES
/
/----------------------------------------------
/  INITIAL CONDITIONS
/----------------------------------------------
/
COMPUTATION CONTINUED  		= NO
INITIAL CONDITIONS     		= 'CONSTANT ELEVATION'
INITIAL ELEVATION      	        = 1.02
/
/----------------------------------------------
/  BOUNDARY CONDITIONS
/----------------------------------------------
/
PRESCRIBED ELEVATIONS            = 0.0;0.0;0.0
/PRESCRIBED FLOWRATES             =0.;50.0
/VELOCITY PROFILES                =2;2
/OPTION FOR LIQUID BOUNDARIES      =2
/
/----------------------------------------------
/  PHYSICAL PARAMETERS
/----------------------------------------------
/
LAW OF BOTTOM FRICTION           = 3
FRICTION COEFFICIENT             = 32.
TURBULENCE MODEL                 = 1
VELOCITY DIFFUSIVITY             = 1.E-4
/
/----------------------------------------------
/  NUMERICAL PARAMETERS 
/----------------------------------------------
/
TYPE OF ADVECTION                = 1;5
SUPG OPTION                      = 0;0;0
SOLVER ACCURACY                  = 1.E-3
DISCRETIZATIONS IN SPACE         = 11 ; 11 
PROPAGATION                      = YES
SOLVER                           = 3
PRECONDITIONING                  = 2 
IMPLICITATION FOR DEPTH          = 0.6
IMPLICITATION FOR VELOCITY       = 0.6
BOTTOM SMOOTHINGS                = 1
MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR SOLVER  = 300

/
/----------------------------------------------
/  TRACERS 
/----------------------------------------------
/
/DENSITY EFFECTS                 = Yes
/MEAN TEMPERATURE                = 10.0
NUMBER OF TRACERS		= 2
NAMES OF TRACERS 		= 'CODMN           MG/L            ';
'NITROGEN        MG/L            '
INITIAL VALUES OF TRACERS       = 0.0;0.0
/PRESCRIBED TRACERS VALUES	= 10.0;0.
/MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ITERATIONS FOR DIFFUSION OF TRACERS = 30
ABSCISSAE OF SOURCES            =369066.0
ORDINATES OF SOURCES            =3556468.0
WATER DISCHARGE OF SOURCES      =1.042
VALUES OF THE TRACERS AT THE SOURCES =16.67;10.0
TYPE OF SOURCES                  =2
OPTION FOR THE DIFFUSION OF TRACERS =2
/           
&FIN

the DELWAQ steering file: 
task      full-coupling                              
                                                     
#                                                    
# telemac data                                       
#                                                    
                                                     
geometry  finite-elements                            
                                                     
horizontal-aggregation       no                      
minimum-vert-diffusion-used  no                      
vertical-diffusion           calculated              
description                                          
   'LVSI'
   '                                    '            
   '                                    '            
end-description                                      
reference-time           '   0 0 0 0 0 0'
hydrodynamic-start-time  '             0'
hydrodynamic-stop-time   '       1080000'
hydrodynamic-timestep    '          3600'
conversion-ref-time      '             0'
conversion-start-time    '             0'
conversion-stop-time     '       1080000'
conversion-timestep      '          3600'
grid-cells-first-direction   1495
grid-cells-second-direction  4431 # nr of exchanges!
number-hydrodynamic-layers      1
number-water-quality-layers     1
hydrodynamic-file        'lvsi-j.geo'
aggregation-file         none                        
grid-indices-file        'lvsi-j.geo'
grid-coordinates-file    'lvsi-j.bc'
volumes-file             'lvsi-j-volume.dwq'
areas-file               'lvsi-j-area.dwq'
flows-file               'lvsi-j-flux.dwq'
pointers-file            'lvsi-j-nodes.dwq'
lengths-file             'lvsi-j-length.dwq'
salinity-file            none                        
temperature-file         none                        
vert-diffusion-file      none                        
velocity-file            none                        
surfaces-file            'lvsi-j-suf.dwq'
total-grid-file          none                        
discharges-file          none                        
chezy-coefficients-file  none                        
shear-stresses-file      none                        
walking-discharges-file  none                        
constant-dispersion                                  
   first-direction    0.0000                         
   second-direction   0.0000                         
   third-direction    0.0000                         
end-constant-dispersion                              
hydrodynamic-layers                               
    1.0000
end-hydrodynamic-layers                           
water-quality-layers                              
    1.0000
end-water-quality-layers                          
discharges                                           
end-discharges
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4369

  • pham
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Hello,

I have some comments to tell you.
First of all, the version you use for Delwaq seems to be quite old. Today, I think the current version is something around 4.0.01 or 4.1.01. Can you tell me how old is your version of Delwaq? Telemac has only been dealing with Delwaq for a one-way coupling since 2007. If it is older, you should change your version of Delwaq (to another one generated since Summer 2011). Do you have any assistance from Deltares to use Delwaq?

By the way, by looking at your Telemac-2D steering file and Delwaq steering file, I have more comments:
- if you want to generate salinity, temperature, velocity or diffusivity Delwaq file, you have to write the names for each keyword as you do, but also to change the keywords SALINITY FOR DELWAQ, TEMPERATURE FOR DELWAQ, VELOCITY FOR DELWAQ, DIFFUSIVITY FOR DELWAQ with the value YES,
- but if you want to generate any salinity or temperature for Delwaq, you also have to declare one or two more tracers in Telemac-2D steering file (with units).
In your case if you do not mind having such four files, you can let the four keywords to the default value NO and do not declare any ... FOR DELWAQ FILE for these four results. Only seven files are needed to run a Delwaq simulation after a Telemac simulation (VOLUMES DELWAQ FILE,
EXCHANGE AREAS DELWAQ FILE, VERTICAL FLUXES DELWAQ FILE, BOTTOM SURFACES DELWAQ FILE, EXCHANGES BETWEEN NODES DELWAQ FILE, NODES DISTANCES DELWAQ FILE, DELWAQ STEERING FILE).

In your steering file for Delwaq, you have to change the lines with time with a date and time format, with a "fake" reference-time more recent than year 1968, eg. 2000, if you do not want to run a simulation from a special date. You have to do it by yourself in version 6.1. It will be done automatically in version 6.2 if a correct reference time is given in Telemac-2D (with the keyword ORIGINAL DATE OF TIME). Currently the default value is at 0;0;0 (see the dictionnary).
reference-time '20000102030405' (example for January 2nd, 2000 at 03:04:05)
hydrodynamic-start-time '20000102030405'
hydrodynamic-stop-time '20000114150405' (example 12 days and a half after in your case: January 14th, 2000 at 15:04:05)
hydrodynamic-timestep '00000000003600'
conversion-ref-time '20000102030405'
conversion-start-time '20000102030405'
conversion-stop-time '20000114150405'
conversion-timestep '00000000003600'

Finally, I hope that there are no spaces missing in your Delwaq steering file as it can be seen in your last post. Keywords and values for standard Delwaq steering files are well alined.

Hope this helps,

Chi-Tuan
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4370

  • hong
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Pham,thank you so much for your reply in such a detail.

I'd like to apolize first. I made a silly mistake about the version of DELWAQ. It's 3.23.02 actually. Is it before or after 2007?

I think I caught most of your comments, except:

1)"- but if you want to generate any salinity or temperature for Delwaq, you also have to declare one or two more tracers in Telemac-2D steering file (with units)"

Can you please explain this again?

2)should "hydrodynamic-start-time" set to be the same with reference-time?

If yes, what's the difference between them?Can I just set one of them?

3)About the "conversion-time"part, what's use of them?

Best wishes
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4372

  • pham
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Hello,

For the version of Delwaq, I know that from 3.23.07, chaining Telemac with Delwaq is OK. For your previous version, it should be but I am not sure.

I think the simpler is to ask Deltares to have an updated version. In particular, in version 6.1 of Telemac, the format of one file changed and you will not be able to chain Telemac with Delwaq for sure.

Moreover, with version of Delwaq older than Summer 2011, the integers in files for Delwaq have to be little endian to use GUI (I do not know how your computer writes integers). Since Summer 2011, the GUI of Delwaq can recognize files from Telemac in little endian or big endian and you do not need to convert any files before running Delwaq (if you use Delwaq before, you may know this issue). To be able to do this, the subroutines tel4del.f in telemac2d and gredelmet_autop.fr in parallel had to be changed in version 6.1 (see when writing LENGTH).

By the way, for your 3 other questions:
1) if you activate the possibility to write a salinity file for Delwaq or a temperature file for Delwaq, you have to activate the two keywords for Delwaq (eg SALINITY DELWAQ FILE and SALINITY FOR DELWAQ) for each one but you also have to add salinity or temperature as tracers in your Telemac-2D steering file. In your case, you have already been considering two tracers (CODMN and N): you have to consider one or two more tracers then. But in 2D, it seems that you do not mind dealing with salinity or temperature, so I suggest you to comment the lines with keywords SALINITY DELWAQ FILE and TEMPERATURE DELWAQ FILE.
2) "reference-time" and "hydrodynamic-start-time" may be different, eg if you enter a date with the keyword ORIGINAL DATE OF TIME and that your Telemac-2D computation starts later. Anyway, you have to fill in all the six "times" lines.
3) I am not a Delwaq user, but if I have understood, "conversion-time" may be used after in Delwaq to run a different period of time (and may be changed directly into the GUI), eg if you consider that your hydrodynamic simulation can be re-run for your water quality simulation. You should ask to Deltares and then, maybe write their answer on this topic.

Regards,

Chi-Tuan
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4374

  • hong
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pham,

I triad again and the problem still exists.

Do you know the DELWAQ is free or not ?

Best wishes
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4380

  • pham
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Hello,

I wrote the suggestions in particular for people who can read this topic and want to reproduce your case. It may prevent from doing some mistakes, particularly in parallel mode if you do not declare VELOCITY FOR DELWAQ = YES when giving a name for VELOCITY DELWAQ FILE (for example). Moreover the advice for the dates will be useful when carring a Delwaq computation.

By the way, I tried your .hyd Delwaq steering file on a recent Delwaq version and it works perfectly when loading it in the Hydrodynamics menu by choosing it with the select button (see enclosed picture)


hong_hyd_loading.gif



Is it this step that you cannot succeed in, with your error message? Or can you get this window with the start and stop times, and time step automatically written?

If yes (for the first question), I think that your problem may come from the version of Delwaq.

For normal users, Delwaq used to be not free, but that may change in the future. You can try to ask Deltares.

I wonder how you can get your Delwaq version...

Regards,

Chi-Tuan
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 7 months ago #4385

  • hong
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Thank you, pham.

My problem is exactly the hyd file cannot be imported.

So I agree with you, it's a problem about DELWAS version.

Best wishes.
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Re: Question about DELWAQ 12 years 6 months ago #4457

  • hong
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Hello，pham.

I contacted the Deltares services and knew that DELWAQ module is not free at present and quite expensive. For basic servive package is 2,925 Euro.

I cannot afford that personally for now.

That means water quality simulation cannot be continued by using Telemac.

Don't know what to do. Sad about this.

Best wishes.
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