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TOPIC: Questions about tracer simulation

Questions about tracer simulation 12 years 5 days ago #6405

  • hong
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Hello,Jean-Michel

Could you please tell me what can be the reasons for the problem of "GRACJG (BIEF) : EXCEEDING MAXIMUM ITERATIONS: "?
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Questions about tracer simulation 12 years 5 days ago #6407

  • riadh
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Hello

This means that the solver is not converging and that it reaches the maximum of iterations.
The cause may be that you are using big time step or that you are imposing severe bounadry condition that Telemac is not able to satisfy. Hence, the solution could to smooth you bounadary condition (by relaxing the gradients) or by decreasing the time step.

My best regards

Riadh
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Questions about tracer simulation 12 years 4 days ago #6421

  • hong
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Thank you, riadh.

I know it's a problem about about not converging.

But the time step I set is not big(5s). Moreover, I set implication for depth and velocity=1.0. So, why the convergence is still controlled by the courant number?

Full-implication scheme is unconditonal stable, isn't it?
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Questions about tracer simulation 12 years 4 days ago #6423

  • riadh
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Hi Hong,

Firstly, depending on the model, the mesh, the physics you are simulating, 5s could be very big or very small.
Secondly, there is a tight link between convergence and stability but stability is NOT convergence.
The definition of these two concepts are very wide and field-dependant, however:
In General, "Numerical Stability" means that the numerical error(generated by the descretization) of the scheme will not "explode" and hence stays always bounded. Stability can be conditional or unconditionnal, this means that we can garantee that the scheme remains stable only if there is a specific condition (such as CFL). Some other schemes can be unconditionally stable i.e. it remains stable wihtout any condition. For each scheme, the stability regions have to be defined.
The convergence is also difficult to explain in some lines. However, in the frame or your application, the nuemrical converngence of a solver (Conjugate gradient in your case, as for any other iterative solver) means that the solver reached the solution Xn(of the linear system AX=b) that satifies the accuracy that you have prescribed for it (by default 10-6 for CG).
To go back to your question, you can use a scheme which is unconditionally stable but you can (for some other raisons that I explained in my previous post) not converge. So the solution for you is to increase the "maximum number of iterations for solver" or decrease the time step or smooth the steep gradient in the boundary condition you are imposing.

I hope that this is helpful

Riadh
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Questions about tracer simulation 12 years 4 days ago #6441

  • hong
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riadh, thank you very much for your explanation in such a detail.

I realized I coufused the conception of convergence and stability.

Then I checked some material and still have something not clear:

It is said that COURANT number is relavant with both convergence and stability.

Increasing it can speed up convergence, but will decrease stability;vise versa.

According to this, as for my question, I used full implicate scheme, so I don't need to care stability, but to fasten convergence. So I think I should increase the time step not decrease it.
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Questions about tracer simulation 12 years 3 days ago #6446

  • jmhervouet
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Hello,

If you do not have monotonicity with a scheme that should be mass-conservative and monotonous, like scheme 13 or 14, maybe you should check that you have the keyword :

TREATMENT OF NEGATIVE DEPTHS : 2

so that the continuity equation is solved at machine accuracy. If not this could be a reason of your problem.

Regards,

Jean-Michel Hervouet
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Questions about tracer simulation 12 years 3 days ago #6447

  • hong
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jmhervouet,thanks:)

The problem has been has been solved by optimizing the mesh.

But the ill-posed problem occured again,although it hadn't a large impact on the result.
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