open TELEMAC-MASCARET The mathematically superior suite of solvers

Hello, I am a brand new user of Telemac and as my first project I have been trying to build a model of two small water sources running out to sea (aiming to add more later). At first I build the model using only the sea boundary, which worked fine. Then I added a source boundary with a tracer, which worked fine too. Finally I added a second source, which is a copy of the first except different location (abscissa/ordinate) and different tracer amount and Telemac crashes with this error:

DEBIMP: PROBLEM ON BOUNDARY NUMBER 1
GIVE A VELOCITY PROFILE
IN THE BOUNDARY CONDITIONS FILE
OR CHECK THE WATER DEPTHS.
OTHER POSSIBLE CAUSE:
SUPERCRITICAL ENTRY WITH FREE DEPTH
IN THIS CASE GIVE A POSITIVE DEPTH
IN THE INITIAL CONDITIONS
OR PRESCRIBE THE DEPTH AT THE ENTRANCE.

My workflow is this:

1) BlueKenue add boundary with prescribed Q and H and tracer.
2) Add values in .cas-file to correspond to two sources instead of one.
3) Build with Telemac2D.

I tried open the .cas in FUDAA prepro, and then I get a different error message:
SEVERE: VELOCITY PROFILES: The number of elements must be equals to 3

The changed values in my .cas-file are these:
WATER DISCHARGE OF SOURCES = 0.1;0.1
ABSCISSAE OF SOURCES =835535;834950
ORDINATES OF SOURCES =7290505;7290372
OPTION FOR LIQUID BOUNDARIES =1;2;2
PRESCRIBED ELEVATIONS =35;44;35
PRESCRIBED FLOWRATES =0.1;0.1;0.1
VALUES OF THE TRACERS AT THE SOURCES=100.;0.;10.;16.;0.;10.
PRESCRIBED TRACERS VALUES=13.0;5.0;0.0;100.0;0.0;0.0;16.0;0.0;0.0

Including the files with the above changes also.

Why do I get an error when adding the second source, when it works perfectly with the first source that has basically the same values?

What are the elements that FUDAA mentions that have to be 3?

Forum doesn't allow to attach files of type telemac-association, so I have renamed them to .txt and attaching again. Hope it works better that way.

And while I'm at it let me clarify the question:

Boundary 1 works well on its own.
Boundary 1 works well when adding a source boundary.
Boundary 1 gives an error message when adding two source boundaries.
Why?

Hi
The problem is not the number of boundaries but as it's indicate in the error message which seems quite clear.
The 3rd boundary added which seems to be the number 1 un the telemac numbering doesn't have water at the beginning of the simulation, then it's impossible to impose a discharge...

About the fudaa problem, this just means you should have as many values in the keyword Velocity Profiles than the number of liquid boundaries.

Regards

c.coulet wrote:
Thank you for your reply, but if the error message was clear I would not need to come to the forum to ask this question.
c.coulet wrote:
When I wrote the steering file (.cas) and the boundary conditions (.bnd) I was assuming that Telemac always reads from left to right and/or from top to bottom. That should mean that boundary 1 is always the sea, because it is always the values to the left and/or at the top. When I added the second boundary this was the case, which was clear from the simulation result based on the input values.

What you are saying is that when a third boundary is added, the reading order is reversed? How can I know which order the boundaries are read? Is it different between different variables?
c.coulet wrote:
I do not have a keyword "VELOCITY PROFILES" in any of my input files...

I'm sorry but when I read :

It seems clear.

And as you're a new user, if you make a simple search on the forum you will find a lot of similar problems which has already answered...


Assuming could be gook if you're lucky but reading the user manual is better (see user manual chapter 3.2.3 and 4.2.3)
The order is given by the order of appearance in the cli file. Looking at the one joined, we see LKAB1, Sea, Ditch...
For all keywords dealing with boundaries, the order is the same and follow the order of the cli file.

I don't have the habit to wrote invented things!
This is in your steering file

By the way givind as many digits for Coriolis Coefficient is not useful as the values are in double precision this means 15 significatives numbers!

Regards

c.coulet wrote:
Aha, thank you. This answers my question.

My manual is from July 2016 for version 7.1, and it is the newest manual I could find. I am running the v8p0 telemac which has given me some difficulties with finding the right keywords and I have already found many answers to such questions on the forum, but not this particular one now. Is there a newer manual available somewhere? Your chapter contents referenced doesn't seem to match my own, for example:

My manual chapter 3.2.3 is about the steering file and doesn't mention any order of boundaries.

My manual chapter 4.2.3 is about resuming computation and doesn't mention any order of boundaries. 4.3.4 is about the boundary conditions file and states "The convention being observed in TELEMAC implies that the first liquid boundary is that which is defined, within the boundary conditions file, by the first two liquid-typed consecutive numbers." I actually did read this chapter before asking the question, but I never realized that it was talking about the order in the steering file; I thought the text was just pointing out where to look in the example table to see how boundaries are defined in this file.

So you see, I did search the forum, I did read the manual, but since the error message was not clear to me, the forum didn't contain an answer as far as I could find, and the manual was not clear to me, I asked the question and now I am thankful for an answer. I just think that while you were nice enough to answer my question you also appear to be attacking me for not doing my homework, which I think is quite unfair and unprovoked. So I think for the sake of promoting a good community around this software, it would be nice if you didn't assume that new users like myself didn't try at all to solve a problem before asking, and I also will try to stop assuming that the software follows my own logic.

c.coulet wrote:
You are quite right. What I meant was that the error says "The number of elements must be equals to 3" and I thought this doesn't have the option of anything like elements since it is number 1 to 5 about what type of profiles to use but....I just realized what the error means. I should put the values 1;1;1 instead of just 1 since this keyword doesn't apply to all profiles by default like I thought it did.
c.coulet wrote:
Hmm, I just copy-pasted the output from the formula in the calculator I used. Do you mean to say that there could arise some problem from this, or is it OK to leave it with an automatic rounding from the telemac software?

You have been very helpful, sorry if I react a bit to your attitude. At least now all my problems have been solved, and my simulation is running. :)

If you use v8p0, you necessarily download it so if everything went well, the user manual is in the documentation folder

I don't think the large number of digits is a problem and by the way the simulation is running ...